The Aristophrenium

Proclaiming the truth of the gospel and the centrality of Christ in all things

Saturday

10

March 2012

9

COMMENTS

Presuppositional commitment to God’s word

Written by , Posted in Anthropology, Apologetics, Epistemology, Ethics, Metaphysics

Updated (scroll down)

Mike Duran at his blog posed what he considers a dilemma regarding the relationship between apostasy and abandoning the Bible as authoritative. [1] Duran invoked the example of Leo, son of the famed intelligent design proponent Michael Behe, who said that his trust in the Bible was shaken by reading The God Delusion by Dawkins and considering for the first time “the fallible origin of Scripture.” [2]

It did not occur to me until later in life to examine the reliability of the Bible, the infallibility of which my Christian opponents would always agree upon. [3]

That point in particular was what originally shook my specific faith—Catholicism—and planted seeds of skepticism … [4]

Once my trust in the Bible was shaken, I still believed strongly in a theistic god, but I realized that I hadn’t sufficiently examined my beliefs. Over the next several months, my certainty of a sentient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent deity faded steadily. I believe that the loss of a specific creed was the tipping point for me. [5]

This erosion of trust in the Bible “is often the first step in Christian apostasy—‘the loss of a specific creed’,” writes Duran, quoting Behe’s phrase.

The first step toward the deconstruction of Christianity must always be the deconstruction of Scripture. For once “the foundations are destroyed” (Ps. 11:3), you are free to construct another worldview, preferably one to your own liking.

However, this creates a problem. If we can’t question and debate the  authenticity, authority, and limits of Scripture, how do we know we can trust it? Unquestioned belief in the Bible is just as wrong as unequivocal rejection of it. [6]

“Unquestioned belief in the Bible is just as wrong as unequivocal rejection of it,” he said, to my astonishment and incredulity; and both his statement and the point raised in his article intuitively brought to mind the Edenic narrative wherein Eve was led by temptation to second-guess God and his word, so it surprised me that neither Duran nor anyone in the comments area invoked the point illustrated in that narrative. Did not the apostle Paul state that, by second-guessing God and his word, Eve fell into the state of “transgression” (1 Timothy 2:14)? In our context here it is uncontroversial that rejecting God’s word is wrong, but exactly how is it “just as wrong” to believe God’s word without question?

On the contrary, if the Edenic narrative taught us anything it’s that accepting and trusting God’s word as authoritative and embracing that attitude existentially is our only sure good! In his second letter to the Corinthian church the apostle Paul expressed the godly jealousy he had for them, such that he promised them as a pure virgin in marriage to Christ their one husband; and yet, he said, “I am afraid that just as the serpent deceived Eve by his treachery, your minds may be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ” (2 Corinthians 11:2-3). Just as Peter encouraged the saints about defending the faith, our task begins from a foundation of setting apart Christ as Lord in our hearts (1 Peter 3:15), a foundation Paul echoes in his letter to the Colossians: “Therefore, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, rooted and built up in him and firm in your faith just as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. Be careful not to allow anyone to captivate you through an empty, deceitful philosophy that is according to human traditions and the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him all the fullness of deity lives in bodily form, and you have been filled in him, who is the head over every ruler and authority” (Colossians 2:6-10; emphases mine). It is on the foundation of accepting and trusting God’s word as authoritative and embracing that attitude existentially that our evangelical and apologetic weapons “are made powerful by God for tearing down strongholds. We tear down arguments and every arrogant obstacle that is raised up against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to make it obey Christ” (2 Corinthians 10:4-5; emphasis mine; cf. Romans 1:18-22 for “against the knowledge of God”).

On the one hand we have Eve who fell into the state of transgression by second-guessing God and his word; on the other hand we have Jesus Christ who, as the spotless Lamb, never once second-guessed God and his word, who at all times and in every moment trusted and did the will of the Father in all things. Do we follow the covenant-breaking pattern of our first parents and their posterity, or do we embrace the covenant-keeping pattern of the Son of God and his posterity? In this sense it raises a glaring red flag when I hear people suggesting that it may be proper to entertain the question apart from or beyond his word (like Eve did), “Has God really said…?” In stark opposition to Duran, unquestioned belief in the Bible is not wrong; as God’s own word, it is our only sure good.

May we “question and debate the authenticity, authority, and limits of Scripture”? There is so much packed into this question that it is difficult to answer. What is meant by authenticity? And what is meant by authority? And what is meant by limits? Insofar as these are hermeneutic questions answered by historical and grammatical exegesis, we certainly may answer them from the scriptures. But if we are disassociating truth and knowledge from the triune God of scriptures, then what authoritative source are we standing upon to question God and his word? And is that not the very sin by which Eve fell into a state of transgression? This is God’s universe, we are his creation, and his saints are captivated only by such philosophy as that which is according to Christ, setting him apart as Lord in their hearts, who is the head over every authority and to whom by grace in love their minds and hearts are obedient.

“How do we know we can trust it?” I don’t think it is an epistemic question of knowing but an existential question of doing; namely, either we do or we don’t take God at his word as authoritative in all things. As for me, and my church family also, we do not conclude but rather presuppose the truth of the Bible’s content as our foundational starting point. To the extent that people seek to establish the authority of the Bible on some basis apart from the Bible, they demonstrate that it is not their final authority; whatever that extrabiblical basis might be, that is their final authority.

Update: 13 March 2012

Mike Duran stopped by to publish here his response (see the comments section below), which began with his displeasure that I did not include in my article here his concluding summary, thus potentially misleading readers to think that he questions such foundational beliefs as captured by his home church’s statement of faith. I don’t want Duran or anyone else thinking that I was insinuating anything of the sort, so at his implicit behest I wish to include the sentence by which he summarized his point at the end of his article:

Doubting Scripture, asking hard questions of it, is part of the process of spiritual growth and arriving at Truth. But it is also the first step in the path of apostasy.

What Duran believes about the Bible is captured by what his home church affirms in that regard, which he quotes as follows: “We believe the Bible is the authoritative record of God’s self-disclosure and is wholly trustworthy. All the books of the Old and New Testament are given by divine inspiration and are the written word of God, the only infallible rule of our faith and practice.” Duran says that he whole-heartedly agrees with that statement, and I want our readers to know that. He states in his comment:

Not only am I not questioning the truth of God’s word, I’m suggesting that how we arrive at the belief that God’s word is true is of utmost importance.

But in his article Duran did appear to be saying that it’s not only permissible but a moral obligation to question such foundational beliefs (though he might now possess satisfactory answers himself). Maybe I am misunderstanding his point, but he not only suggested that we can “question and debate the authenticity, authority, and limits of Scripture”—for how do we trust it otherwise?—but he also suggested that failing to do so is “just as wrong” as unequivocally rejecting the Bible. But then again, as I said previously, it is important to know what he meant by authenticity, authority, and limits; for example, he could mean those terms differently from their foundational sense.

Also, a commenter named Sally said,

You are wrong to say that Duran sins like Eve when he says unquestioning belief is as wrong as unequivocal unbelief. … You can hardly expect us to take you seriously when you make the outrageous claim that Duran is guilty of the same sin as Eve.

Therein lies another potential confusion I want to avoid. I never accused Duran of that sin. I was arguing that unquestioned belief in the Bible is the opposite of wrong; “On the contrary,” I had said above, “if the Edenic narrative taught us anything it’s that accepting and trusting God’s word as authoritative and embracing that attitude existentially is our only sure good!” It is second-guessing God and his word that is wrong.



Footenotes:

[1] Duran, 2012, par. 2ff.

[2] Shaffer, 2011, par. 12.

[3] Ibid., par. 6.

[4] Ibid., par. 12.

[5] Ibid., par. 14.

[6] Duran, pars. 7-8; emphasis his.

References:

Duran, M. (2012, March 2). “The prerequisite to all apostasy.” deCompose [web].

Shaffer, R. (2011, September–October). “The Humanist interview with Leo Behe.” The Humanist [web].

  • http://twitter.com/povbootcamp Andrea J Graham

    Brother, if you truly have such great faith that you are able to trust in God’s word without blinking or wavering in the face of even the greatest sorrows and trials of life, wonderful! Praise God that you are strong.

    But most Christians today are weak. For your weak brothers, the path to becoming strong in the faith is not drawing near to God with our lips and saying the right things when the heart is burdened with doubt and questions. That will not cleanse the heart. What will cleanse the inside of the weak brother’s heart is confessing to God honestly what they are truly thinking and feeling in their hearts and surrendering that to him on the altar.

    I believe that is the sort of process that Mr. Duran had in mind. If we cannot voice what we’re really believing in our hearts, if we can only say the right things, then we are merely throwing a rug over our sin; it will continue to weigh us down and hinder us in the faith, and we will never grow and flourish. We will remain weak and on shaky ground where it most counts. If one never voices (to surrender them to God) the real questions in their hearts, sooner or later a strong storm is going to come, blow their house away, and expose that they truly were building on sands of doubt rather than on the rock of faith.

    That is why it is a serious mistake for God’s people to draw near to God with the lips (or keyboard) while our hearts remain far from him—and I hope you do recognize the biblical reference proving this is indeed the case. If one has never questioned their faith, they have also never examined themselves to see if they truly are in the faith.

  • http://aristophrenium.com/ Ryft Braeloch

    Andrea,

    Thank you for your uplifting and encouraging comment. So much of what you said is exactly right and eloquently put.

    I do wish to suggest, however, that you might have misunderstood my intended meaning. By no means was I suggesting that Christians should not honestly admit and confess to God their doubts and questions, surrending them to God at the altar of his loving grace. Lord knows that I have wrestled against such torments myself, crying out to him in bitter tears—there have been times when I could poignantly relate to Job—and by all means the Lord in his mercy is there with healing and strength for those who admit their spiritual needs.

    But that is the very issue, is it not? To what or whom do we turn with those doubts and questions? That very God of grace and mercy to whom we confess and on whom we lean is the one who revealed himself to be such a God in his divine word—long ago through angels and prophets, but finally the incarnate Word and his apostles, given to us in God-breathed scriptures. But like the Son of God and his posterity, in confessing to God our struggles and questions we ultimately surrender to him and his faithful word; “Yet not my will but yours be done.” There are so many psalms that confess real and often painful struggles, but it is always God and his word that is surrendered to and leaned on. “How blessed is the one who trusts in the LORD and does not seek help from the proud or from liars! … I want to do what pleases you, my God. Your law dominates my thoughts” (Psalm 40:4-8; cf. John 4:34; 5:30; 6:38). Again, the same God of grace and mercy to whom we confess and on whom we lean is the one who revealed himself to be such a God in his divine word.

    Surely no foundation is a more solid rock of faith to stand on in the face of strong winds than the testimony of God in his word, by which he reveals himself to us, calls us to himself, comforts and strengthens us, teaches and reproves us, a divine communion wrought by the Spirit who attends and guards that word. It is second-guessing God and his word that first broke that communion back in Eden, for by doing so our first parents stepped off the foundation of rock and onto the shifting sands of broken and fallible human thinking. Although like so many saints in the Bible we may be afflicted by doubts and questions, it is always God and his word that we surrender to and lean on.

  • http://profiles.google.com/cirdog Mike Duran

     Ryft, I think you’re missing the bigger point of this piece. By quite
    a bit. I summarized that point near the end in this statement: “Doubting
    Scripture, asking hard questions of it, is part of the process of
    spiritual growth and arriving at Truth. But it is also the first step in
    the path of apostasy.”

    Please notice I am saying that the first step on the path to apostasy
    is denying, questioning, and/or disavowing Scripture. I think we agree
    on this point, don’t we? Your comment, however, and subsequent post,
    conveniently leave out this part of my argument. I don’t think that’s
    very fair, especially when we’re discussing Scripture and Truth.

    To be clear, I’m quoting from my home church’s Statement of Faith
    regarding my belief about Scripture: “We believe the Bible is the
    authoritative record of God’s self-disclosure and is wholly trustworthy.
    All the books of the Old and New Testament are given by divine
    inspiration and are the written word of God, the only infallible rule of
    our faith and practice. ” I wholeheartedly agree with to this
    statement. However, I’m afraid your article, whether intentionally or
    unintentionally, insinuates that I am questioning these foundational
    beliefs.

    Not only am I NOT questioning the Truth of God’s Word, I’m suggesting
    that how we arrive at the belief that God’s Word is True is of utmost
    importance. Ryft, I want people to arrive at the Truth of God’s Word. So
    I think we have the same objective, yes?

    Where we differ, I think, is how that happens. I don’t think we can
    just say “The Bible is God’s Word, now trust it!” How is that any
    different from saying “The Koran is God’s Word, now trust it!” or “The
    Bhagavad Gita is Divine, trust it!”? How does a genuine seeker
    arrive at the conclusion that the Bible is superior to the Koran or the
    Bhagavad Gita? If it’s simply on the basis of faith, then why fault them
    for having faith in the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita? Or why not
    have faith in all three? I mean, if it all comes down to faith — apart
    from any external evidence — then we can rationalize just about any
    belief.

    I believe your final paragraph is the most telling about where we differ: “…either we do or we don’t take God at his word as authoritative in all things. As for me, and my church family also, we do not conclude but rather presuppose the truth of the Bible’s content as our foundational starting point..”
    This is entirely circular. It’s like saying, “The Bible is God’s Word
    because it says it’s God’s Word,” or “The Bible is our foundational
    starting point because the Bible says it’s our foundational starting
    point.” Presupposing that anything is True — including Scripture — is
    dangerous. Should I presuppose evolution is True? Why or why not? Should
    I presuppose the Humanist Manifesto is True? Why or why not? Should I
    presuppose that The Egyptian Book of the Dead is True? Why or why not?
    So why presuppose the Bible is True? Just because it says so? If so,
    why apply different presuppositions to the Bible?

    Once again, my belief is that if a person critically approaches the
    evidence for Scripture’s authenticity — the manuscript evidence, its
    prophetic accuracy, the eyewitness support, its historical coherence,
    its philosophical congruence, etc. — they will reach the conclusion we
    both desire. This doesn’t mean we don’t need faith, but that we also
    don’t need to fear facts. The Bible has withstood centuries of
    criticism, denunciation, dilution, and bad preaching. So why fear
    factual inquiry?

  • Sally

    I am in agreement with you, in part. I don’t believe anyone can prove that the Bible is God’s word. I believe we have faith because the Holy Spirit give us faith, and we go to the Bible with the presupposition that it is God’s word.

    That said, I didn’t see anything wrong with Duran saying that “Unquestioned belief in the Bible is just as wrong as unequivocal rejection of it.”

    I assumed he had in mind the Christians who cannot give an answer for the hope they have within them. 

    We are told to study to show ourselves approved unto God. We are told to reason with God. Christians are not to check their brains at the door. 

    We are saved by God, by grace, through faith. But once there, we are to look at the Bible and ask God, “Is this true? Is this your word? Did you really say this? How come these two things that seem to contradict themselves are here? Did you change your mind or forget what you said earlier?” 

    There are good answers to all those questions. 

    And anyone who has never asked God, “Is the Bible your word,” has never come to faith. You cannot believe a thing is true if you’ve never asked if it’s true. You may not have even been aware that you asked, but the statement, “The Bible is God’s word,” answers the question, “Is the Bible God’s word.”

    Where I depart from Duran’s view, if I understand him correctly, is that I don’t believe we ask God and then find proof. I believe we ask God and he gives us faith without proof. I believe that my faith is not different from the Mormon’s except that one of us has faith in God and one has faith in a demon. I believe that one day the Mormon and I will stand before God and he will say to one of us, “Well done, good and faithful servant,” and he will say to the other those terrible words, “Away from me, ye worker of iniquity, for I never knew you.”

    This doesn’t mean my faith is blind faith. My faith is built on God’s word. God’s word proves itself. Duran calls that a circular argument and he’s right. My question is this:  If the Bible is God’s word, what could possibly prove that? What higher authority can we go to that will prove the Bible is indeed God’s word? If it is God’s word, it has to prove itself because nothing else can stand outside of it and above it. If God is above all, and he speaks to us, what can prove that he has spoken? What can be more trustworthy than his word and so be able to credibly testify that the word in question is indeed his word?

    So you are right to say that there is no authoritative source on which to stand while we question God’s word, but you are wrong to say that Duran sins like Eve when he says unquestioning belief is as wrong as unequivocal unbelief. Charity demands that you read Duran assuming that he means that we take our questions to God and not to man. Charity demands that you ask Duran to clarify if you aren’t sure what he means. 

    Eve didn’t question God. She believed Satan. Had she questioned God earlier, asking if he really told Adam that she couldn’t eat and did he say they couldn’t touch or just that they couldn’t eat and what did he mean by that and would he please explain it to her, then perhaps when Satan showed up, she would have stood against him. Eve didn’t question God, she simply believed Satan when he spoke evil of God. She believed that God was being selfish and withholding something good from her.

    You can hardly expect us to take you seriously when you make the outrageous claim that Duran is guilty of the same sin as Eve. 

    I am in agreement with your take on presupposition, but I think you’re misunderstanding Duran and perhaps the reason the people in the comments thread didn’t react the way you reacted is that we know him and we’re reading him in context. 

  • http://aristophrenium.com/ Ryft Braeloch

    Mike,

    It was never my intention to suggest that you, personally, are questioning such foundational beliefs about the Bible as captured by your home church’s statement of faith. That you could think my article suggests anything of the sort tells me, first, that perhaps others could as well and, second, that I must therefore go back and correct for that with a small update (which will include your summary statement from the end of your article). I do not want you or anyone else thinking that I was saying anything like that, for I surely wasn’t.

    Nevertheless, what I understood you to be saying is that it’s not only permissible but a moral obligation to question such foundational beliefs—though you might possess now satisfactory answers yourself. I fully accept that I may be misunderstanding your point, but you not only suggested that we can “question and debate the authenticity, authority, and limits of Scripture,” as we may not trust it otherwise, but you also suggested that failing to do so is “just as wrong” as unequivocally rejecting the Bible. But again, as I said in my response to your article, it is important to know what you mean just there by authenticity, authority, and limits; for example, you could mean those terms differently from their foundational sense.

    I do agree with you, and quite firmly, that “how we arrive at the belief that God’s word is true is of utmost importance,” and I hope I made that clear in my response. How we arrive at that belief is of crucial importance. But yes, we seem to differ over how that happens. I think we ought to take a hard and serious look at the Edenic narrative and trust God’s word simply because it is his word; namely, the fact that God said “it is the case that X” should be enough for us to trust that X is the case.

    But when I use the terms we and us I am talking about the saints specifically, not everyone generally. Apart from God regenerating a man’s heart in his salvation, that man will never trust God nor accept his revelation. You may bring a truckload of evidences corroborating what the Bible says, but an unregenerate sinner will persist in his enmity against God and rejection of the Bible. I have heard it a hundred times: “Just because the Bible is correct about those things, that doesn’t mean it’s correct about these other things, much less does it make it divine.” Apart from the saving grace of God the unregenerate sinner will never trust God nor accept his revelation, Mike, no matter what clever arguments or evidences we bring, because “our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens” (Eph. 6:12), such that “the god of this age has blinded the minds of those who do not believe” (2 Corinthians 4:4; cf. John 16:11; 1 John 5:19). There is no such thing as a neutral frame of reference; those who are not the sheep are the goats. “I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,” Jesus said. “You refuse to believe because you are not my sheep” (John 10:14-27).

    Indeed we have nothing to fear from facts, but they do not represent why the Bible is true or trustworthy. God does. And not to put too fine a point on it but facts are unintelligible outside a biblical world view, which is the only coherent and self-consistent interpretive grid that accounts for and makes sense of them. It is a biblical world view that gives us the framework and confidence to seek and explore facts; indeed, it is what gave birth to the institution of modern science with its structures and rules (e.g., N. Pearcey and C. Thaxton, The Soul of Science: Christian Faith and Natural Philosophy [Crossway Books, 1994]).

    So then what of the Muslim who says, “The Quran is God’s word; now trust it!” Should we find that compelling? That depends. If it is God’s word, then we should indeed trust it. So is it? No, it is not. We know from canonical Scripture (theopneustos) what God’s nature and character is like, which is minimally that his word never contradicts itself and that Jesus is God—two very basic tests the Quran fails, so it cannot be canonical Scripture. (Worse still, the Quran fails its own test.) Since it is not God’s word, we need not trust it.

    And no, that statement in my final paragraph does not demonstrate circularity. I said that “we do not conclude but rather presuppose the truth of the Bible’s content as our foundational starting point.” In order to be circular the conclusion has to be found in one of the premises, but I just finished denying it being a conclusion at all. We can certainly explore the questions and objections you raised on this score but I am running out of room in this particular comment submission. Perhaps I will interact with them in a separate post because they were important questions and objections.

  • http://aristophrenium.com/ Ryft Braeloch

    “We are told to study to show ourselves approved unto God.”

    We are told to make every effort or earnestly endeavor (Gk. spoudazo) to present ourselves before God as proven workers who need not be ashamed, teaching the message of truth accurately (2 Tim. 2:15). Compare 2 Cor. 10:18; 1 Cor. 11:19; 1 Thess. 2:4; Gal. 1:10; as opposed to one who shows himself as reprobate, e.g., Titus 1:16.

    “We are told to reason with God.”

    But we are never told to reason apart from God. In all things—including our reasoning—he is our beginning, means, and end, all for the glory of his name. Truth, logic, knowledge, science, every corner of creaturely experience is predicated on the sovereign purpose and will of the covenant God who created all things and sustains them by his powerful word (e.g., “I have made a covenant governing the coming of day and night. I have established the fixed laws governing heaven and earth,” Jer. 33:25). In all things and without compromise we set apart Christ as Lord in our hearts (1 Pet. 3:15).

    “Christians are not to check their brains at the door.”

    Amen!

    “[By God we are saved by grace through faith.] But once there, we are to look at the Bible and ask God, Is this true? Is this your word? Did you really say this? How come these two things that seem to contradict themselves are here? Did you change your mind or forget what you said earlier?”

    Indeed. And as I had said, “Insofar as these are hermeneutic questions answered by historical and grammatical exegesis, we certainly may answer them from the scriptures.” For example, John 17:17; Psa. 119:160; 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Pet. 1:21; Num. 23:19; Mal. 3:6; and so forth.

    “My faith is built on God’s word. God’s word proves itself.”

    Amen!

    “Duran calls that a circular argument and he’s right.”

    He’s actually not.

    “If the Bible is God’s word, what could possibly prove that?”

    God himself. See the incarnate Son (e.g., Matt. 22:31); see also the work of the Holy Spirit (John 16:13; cf. 17:17).

    “What can be more trustworthy than his word …?”

    Amen again!

    “But you are wrong to say that Duran sins like Eve when he says unquestioning belief is as wrong as unequivocal unbelief. … You can hardly expect us to take you seriously when you make the outrageous claim that Duran is guilty of the same sin as Eve.”

    A minor correction: I never accused Duran of that sin. I was arguing that unquestioned belief in the Bible is the opposite of wrong; “On the contrary, if the Edenic narrative taught us anything it’s that accepting and trusting God’s word as authoritative and embracing that attitude existentially is our only sure good!” It is second-guessing God and his word that is wrong.

    And please understand that questioning God is not at all the same thing as second-guessing God. The latter consists of when God clearly says “it is the case that X” and we respond by supposing, “Maybe X isn’t the case”—like in the Edenic narrative where Eve was fully deceived into second-guessing God about the fruit.

  • Marc

     Ryft said, “Apart from God regenerating a man’s heart in his salvation, that man will never trust God nor accept his revelation.”

    So, on your account, we should never differ over whether God used a principle like evolution to create or used His Son, or, indeed, if Walton’s book is a load of twaddle or is insightful because the regenerated man trusts God and accepts his revelation and will know exactly what His Word has said on the subject?!

  • http://aristophrenium.com/ Ryft Braeloch

    Marc,

    First, I have no idea how you got from what I said in my article to what you inferred in your comment. Second, I have no idea why you’re so consistently vituperative.

    At any rate, just because you and I agree on what the Bible is, that does not mean you and I automatically agree on what the Bible says. The former is a metaphysical issue (the nature of the Bible) while the latter is an exegetical issue (the content of the Bible). You may think God said X while I think he said Y; that question is settled by sound exegesis, even while we both firmly agree that the Bible is the word of God.

    Your curious red herring notwithstanding, apart from God regenerating a man’s heart in his salvation that man will never trust God nor accept his revelation.

  • Marc

    Ryft,

    You said, “Apart from God generating a man’s heart in his
    salvation, that man will never…accept his revelation.”
    Immediately following that you nuanced it by stating “you may bring
    a truckload of evidences corroborating what the Bible says, but an
    unregenerate sinner will persist in his enmity against God and
    rejection of the Bible.” And, among other things, what does the
    unbeliever reject? That Jesus is God, is Creator, has created quickly
    without need of any principle implanted in nature and a myriad of
    other facts stated ever so clearly in, inter alia, Genesis 1, John 1,
    Colossians 1 & 2.

    Now unless you are claiming that the information about who Jesus
    is (the Creator), how God created (by His Wisdom), the non-existence
    of matter before Day 1 (Hebrews 11:3), the non-existence of time
    between Genesis 1:1 and verse 2 (see e.g. Weston’s Unformed and
    Unfilled) is NOT a part of God’s revelation, then my point still
    holds. That is, if understanding who God is and what he does in
    history is dependent upon God first regenerating a man’s heart, why
    then do you put yourself in opposition to God’s revelation? Does this
    in fact mean you have a unregenerated heart or that God has left us
    as orphans without any biblical revelation about times and methods
    and meanings of verses that seem to unambiguously appear to reveal
    information about times and methods? How odd if this second were so
    given how much the Bible, particularly the first page, has stated
    about the subject.

    To claim that we should differentiate between the “metaphysical
    issue (the nature of the Bible) [and the] exegetical issue (the
    content of the Bible)” seems to me far too close to special
    pleading that I could reasonably accept as a convincing argument. As
    I said above, understanding how and for how long God created, and
    that Genesis 1 is, for all intents and purpose, exhaustive
    information, is not so easily consigned to the
    Oh-well-that’s-just-your-interpretation basket. How you regard the
    Bible, what you see the Bible has spoken on, is a, as you put it, a
    metaphysical issue, not exclusively an exegetical one. Has the Bible,
    and thus God, spoken authoritatively and finally on origins, has he
    left it all up to us or whatever has been “revealed” is an
    ambiguous mess, are metaphysical issues.

    I am not quite sure that we, in practice, actually do agree on
    what the Bible is. After all, you’ve expended no small energy
    praising Walton’s book when I would say that he takes a fairly low
    view of scripture, particularly when it comes to Genesis 1. His first
    argument for his thesis draws putative support from comparison with
    ANE culture and its origin documents. Isn’t this nothing less than a
    rehash of good old-fashioned liberal scepticism about the uniqueness
    of God’s revelation to man about origins? And what about the real
    driving force behind Walton’s thesis? It is not any genuine and real
    information obtained from Scripture (even his analysis of ‘bara’
    seems like a joke!) but his admitted old age and evolutionary view of
    the cosmos that really is the foundation for it.

    You yourself have only recently admitted holding to an old age
    view and so if you were really a consistent presuppositionalist and
    didn’t special plead away from the scripturally obvious (i.e. alla
    Walton’s Cosmic Temple-functional ontology interpretation) you would
    truly stand upon what the Scriptures clearly do say about the age of
    the earth. It certainly worries me that you, like Walton, are in fact
    saying that the Bible has said nothing about the age of the earth.
    Apart from its obvious falsity, such a position defies common sense
    due to the importance of this topic in all cultures, notwithstanding
    Walton’s argument to the contrary.

    Vituperative? Me?