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	<title>Comments on: Pro-birth: too painful to bring to term</title>
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		<title>By: A Christ-centred three months &#8211; and counting! : thoughts out !oud</title>
		<link>http://aristophrenium.com/mathew/pro-birth-too-painful-to-bring-to-term/#comment-1066</link>
		<dc:creator>A Christ-centred three months &#8211; and counting! : thoughts out !oud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aristophrenium.com/?p=1077#comment-1066</guid>
		<description>[...] reflect on an abortion discussion I had via Twitter, considering if pro-birth is a term that can be applied to pro-lifers and if the bodily autonomy argument has any [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] reflect on an abortion discussion I had via Twitter, considering if pro-birth is a term that can be applied to pro-lifers and if the bodily autonomy argument has any [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Duane</title>
		<link>http://aristophrenium.com/mathew/pro-birth-too-painful-to-bring-to-term/#comment-875</link>
		<dc:creator>Duane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aristophrenium.com/?p=1077#comment-875</guid>
		<description>Right you are. And I for one appreciate the rant, especially as I have written several posts that approach 2000 words on the topic, including a critique of these misnomers and a look at the abortion statistics in my own country.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;ll be sure to regurgitate those posts here in the near future as they&#039;re not going to get much more exposure where they currently reside anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right you are. And I for one appreciate the rant, especially as I have written several posts that approach 2000 words on the topic, including a critique of these misnomers and a look at the abortion statistics in my own country.</p>
<p>I&#39;ll be sure to regurgitate those posts here in the near future as they&#39;re not going to get much more exposure where they currently reside anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryft Braeloch</title>
		<link>http://aristophrenium.com/mathew/pro-birth-too-painful-to-bring-to-term/#comment-869</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryft Braeloch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 04:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aristophrenium.com/?p=1077#comment-869</guid>
		<description>I prefer the very clear and unambiguous dichotomy ‘pro-abortion’ vs. ‘pro-life’. Seems to me that, in both cases, by classifying the opposing side as ‘anti-’ something we end up committing inaccuracies. On the one hand, it is generally incorrect to think they are ‘anti-life’ because they’re really not; e.g., they may be ‘pro-life’ in quite a broad range of circumstances, not least being the life of the mother. I know some who value human life quite highly (but only if that human life has been exposed to air).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;On the other hand, it is likewise incorrect generally to think that we are ‘anti-choice’ or ‘anti-abortion’, because we’re neither. First, no pro-lifer thinks that women should be stripped of reproductive choices; we do think that women should have such choices but we think those choices should (a) give primacy to the weight of &lt;em&gt;morality&lt;/em&gt; above that of convenience, (b) be properly and &lt;em&gt;fully&lt;/em&gt; informed, and (c) be made between the woman, her physician, &lt;em&gt;and her husband!&lt;/em&gt; (That last one may strike some people as controversial, but I am strongly and viciously opposed to the systematic eradication of the father’s reproductive and parental rights.) Second, no pro-lifer thinks that abortion should be universally illegal; we are merely opposed to elective abortions, those performed for gratuitous reasons unrelated to the mother’s life being in jeopardy (which comprise a staggering 93% of all abortions [1]), &lt;em&gt;most especially&lt;/em&gt; late-term abortions.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I also think they are being misleading (and probably intentionally) when they call themselves ‘pro-choice’ because it’s inescapably obvious to anyone with a functioning brain that it’s always one specific choice they ardently champion: abortion. (Nothing brings this fact home more clearly than the ongoing undercover sting operations into Planned Parenthood clinics.) This is why they should boldly identify themselves as ‘pro-abortion’—because they are. And why not? Since they think abortion is nothing but a specific medical procedure, and since the unborn is nothing more significant than a collection of biological matter, they have no real reason to shy away from labelling themselves ‘pro-abortion’. After all, it is our side, not theirs, that paints the term with strong moral weight; why do they so easily and willingly concede to us the moral high ground? Why do they in one breath assert that the unborn is nothing but a biological clump, while in the next breath say that the decision to have an abortion is difficult and distressing one for a woman to make? Hint: their inconsistency proves that their God-given conscience is still functioning; on some level they are loath to acknowledge, they actually know better.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sorry for the rant. The abortion issue, given contemporary culture and laws, really gets me hot under the collar.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;em&gt;1. According to the Guttmacher Institute, 7% of all abortions performed are for reasons of rape or incest or health risks regarding either the mother or child, while 93% of them are performed for &lt;/em&gt;&lt;em&gt;social reasons (the child is unwanted or inconvenient).&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I prefer the very clear and unambiguous dichotomy ‘pro-abortion’ vs. ‘pro-life’. Seems to me that, in both cases, by classifying the opposing side as ‘anti-’ something we end up committing inaccuracies. On the one hand, it is generally incorrect to think they are ‘anti-life’ because they’re really not; e.g., they may be ‘pro-life’ in quite a broad range of circumstances, not least being the life of the mother. I know some who value human life quite highly (but only if that human life has been exposed to air).</p>
<p>On the other hand, it is likewise incorrect generally to think that we are ‘anti-choice’ or ‘anti-abortion’, because we’re neither. First, no pro-lifer thinks that women should be stripped of reproductive choices; we do think that women should have such choices but we think those choices should (a) give primacy to the weight of <em>morality</em> above that of convenience, (b) be properly and <em>fully</em> informed, and (c) be made between the woman, her physician, <em>and her husband!</em> (That last one may strike some people as controversial, but I am strongly and viciously opposed to the systematic eradication of the father’s reproductive and parental rights.) Second, no pro-lifer thinks that abortion should be universally illegal; we are merely opposed to elective abortions, those performed for gratuitous reasons unrelated to the mother’s life being in jeopardy (which comprise a staggering 93% of all abortions [1]), <em>most especially</em> late-term abortions.</p>
<p>I also think they are being misleading (and probably intentionally) when they call themselves ‘pro-choice’ because it’s inescapably obvious to anyone with a functioning brain that it’s always one specific choice they ardently champion: abortion. (Nothing brings this fact home more clearly than the ongoing undercover sting operations into Planned Parenthood clinics.) This is why they should boldly identify themselves as ‘pro-abortion’—because they are. And why not? Since they think abortion is nothing but a specific medical procedure, and since the unborn is nothing more significant than a collection of biological matter, they have no real reason to shy away from labelling themselves ‘pro-abortion’. After all, it is our side, not theirs, that paints the term with strong moral weight; why do they so easily and willingly concede to us the moral high ground? Why do they in one breath assert that the unborn is nothing but a biological clump, while in the next breath say that the decision to have an abortion is difficult and distressing one for a woman to make? Hint: their inconsistency proves that their God-given conscience is still functioning; on some level they are loath to acknowledge, they actually know better.</p>
<p>Sorry for the rant. The abortion issue, given contemporary culture and laws, really gets me hot under the collar.</p>
<p><em>1. According to the Guttmacher Institute, 7% of all abortions performed are for reasons of rape or incest or health risks regarding either the mother or child, while 93% of them are performed for </em><em>social reasons (the child is unwanted or inconvenient).</em></p>
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		<title>By: Duane</title>
		<link>http://aristophrenium.com/mathew/pro-birth-too-painful-to-bring-to-term/#comment-868</link>
		<dc:creator>Duane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As soon as you began to elaborate on the term &lt;i&gt;pro-birth&lt;/i&gt;,  what first came to my mind was the more dissuasive term, &lt;i&gt;anti-choice&lt;/i&gt;; a label that is often used in forums like this one to give &lt;i&gt;pro-life&lt;/i&gt; some negative spin. And I think you correctly concluded that this is not an accurate reflection of the pro-life position.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Similarly it could be argued that we (i.e. pro-lifers) are guilty of the same when we tell &lt;i&gt;pro-choice&lt;/i&gt; advocates that they&#039;re really just &lt;i&gt;pro-abortion&lt;/i&gt; advocates dressed up in postmodern semantics, to which many of them object. And why? Well one of the laws of moral relativism states that I personally can be &lt;i&gt;&quot;pro-life&quot;&lt;/i&gt; even though I think that other parents ought to have the right to choose whether or not to abort their own babies. Or to put it another way, I personally think it&#039;s wrong to murder people, but if other people want to murder then that&#039;s up to them... hmm?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Good post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As soon as you began to elaborate on the term <i>pro-birth</i>,  what first came to my mind was the more dissuasive term, <i>anti-choice</i>; a label that is often used in forums like this one to give <i>pro-life</i> some negative spin. And I think you correctly concluded that this is not an accurate reflection of the pro-life position.</p>
<p>Similarly it could be argued that we (i.e. pro-lifers) are guilty of the same when we tell <i>pro-choice</i> advocates that they&#39;re really just <i>pro-abortion</i> advocates dressed up in postmodern semantics, to which many of them object. And why? Well one of the laws of moral relativism states that I personally can be <i>&#8220;pro-life&#8221;</i> even though I think that other parents ought to have the right to choose whether or not to abort their own babies. Or to put it another way, I personally think it&#39;s wrong to murder people, but if other people want to murder then that&#39;s up to them&#8230; hmm?</p>
<p>Good post!</p>
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